Written by Michael P. Owen
owenmp@hotmail.com
Web Posted December 24, 1998
Updated August 05, 2000
Introduction. AutoVentures 1: TurboFire. Aaron Allston. Associated Clearing Services/Task Force Games. 1984. p.2.
Face facts: Auto combat games are a lot of fun. Better than cruising around in your Lamborghini Countach must be cruising in the Countach with the machine-gun under the hood -- it's not only beautiful and monstrously fast, its lethal. The American Dream, with belt-fed ammo.
There are several auto combat car games on the market now, and other manufacturers aren't producing adventures and supplements fast enough to keep the games buyer happy.
That's where AutoVentures comes in. Each AutoVentures supplement will include adventures for all the major games in the combat-car field. Each supplement will feature a section on game mechanics for the adventure at hand (Can-Am duel racing, in this one), a programmed solo adventure or a gamemastered multi-player adventure (or both) suitable not only for car games but for role-playing games with vehicular combat modes (such as James Bond 007 and Espionage!), and conversion advice at the back of each supplement for comparing equipment from game to game, plus full-color counters, maps and more.
We're also providing a campaign world which you can use in your campaign or ignore as you please -- the world-setting is only to provide some consistency to the series and springboard your own ideas, not to tie up game mechanics with some inflexible or illogical setting.
We hope you like TurboFire and the rest of the AutoVentures line. The more you buy and play, the more money we receive (here's enlightened self-interest at its most honest) and the more AutoVentures we produce. It's in our interest to show you a real good time.
Aaron Allston
Introduction. AutoVentures 3: UltraForce. Aaron Allston. Associated Clearing Services/Task Force Games. 1984. p.2.
One thing that's really nice about auto-combat games is that they're capable of simulating so much -- almost any movie or book involving small combat vehicles can be handled within the scope of one or another of the rules sets. You can play wasteland road warriors, high-tech racing, unarmed demolition derbies, Bondian spy-car chases, and more.
UltraForce is one of the "more." This adventure supplement allows you to set up an UltraForce team, a military unit set up for fast strikes, messy assaults, and other quick-and-dirty military actions where speed, versatility, maneuverability, and elite personnel are the absolute essentials.
In UltraForce, we're providing you with a history, organization, vehicle and equipment stats, and NPC notes for members of the UltraForce team. In addition, included are scenarios for UltraForce to undertake, an assortment of full-color counters of UltraForce and enemy vehicles, a new chapter in the world-history of the AutoVentures world of 2012 A.D., rules for expanding the role of your drivers, gunners and other humans in these vehicle-oriented games, special BattleCars cards for the vehicles detailed in the text, conversion advice for the three auto-combat games (BattleCars, Car Wars, and Highway 2000) for which stats are given in the text, and our expanded quick combat system.
The quick combat system is a small-scale combat mini-game which will allow you to play UltraForce and future AutoVentures supplements even if you don't have one of the three usual auto-combat games on hand. All you need are pencil, paper, and dice, and you can jump right into combat.
That's it, then. I hope you enjoy. Let us know: Our address is on the back cover.
Aaron Allston
Would it be possible for a car which is at zero miles per hour and is hit by another car head-on, to end up farther ahead when it is dropped to simulate the random spins, etc. of impact? It would seem to me that the car at zero would only be able to go backward.
Philip and Paul Schwartzberg
Minneapolis, MN
Autoduel Quarterly 1/1, p.28
Spring 2033
Yes. The collision system of Pocket Box Car Wars (p.9) is obviously an extremely simple approach to determining new positions. It's there to make an already complicated system easier to play. Truck Stop modified this for oversized vehicles, so that tankers don't randomly bounce when colliding with cycles. We're working on a more realistic (and complicated) system, taking into account relative speeds and weights. We hope to have it ready for ADQ 1/2, and for our upcoming reference screen.
So, we've already come up with two modifications to our original system. You are suggesting another variation. It sounds reasonable; if everyone is agreed, use it. At SJ Games, we're spear-heading a play system which anyone is free to modify to taste; we're not insisting on rigorous adherence to our rules.
Steve Jackson (ADQ Publisher) and David Ladyman (ADQ Editor)
The Driver's Seat: The Official Word. Scott D. Haring. Autoduel Quarterly Volume 4 Number 1. AADA Press. Spring 2041. pp.2-3.
There's been a fair amount of clamor recently over the proliferation of new gadgets and rules in the pages of ADQ, and whether or not they are "official." The sports car power plant, introduced in a letter a few issues back, is one example. The letter presented the stats as a "I used it and it's neat, so why don't you try it out" sort of thing, and my response was, "Looks good -- if anyone wants to include it in their campaign, they can."
Just two issues back, John M. Ford wrote us an excellent piece of fiction called "Alkahest -- The Deathtoll Solution," which featured super-powered mutants, people masquerading as super-powered mutants, and a bunch of neat new gadgets -- X-Ray lasers, booster jets for quick acceleration and jumping, a cheaper automotive stealth system, and other things. I think they're all neat ideas -- they make the story work. But some of them are very powerful, and the jump rockets are extremely complicated, so what to do? Are they "official?"
I even published a letter recently from someone suggesting we include attack dogs in the game, and he provided some stats in the letter along with the description. Within days of the issue's publication, I started getting letters: "Is this 'official'?"
For the record, none of the above items are "official." The general rule is, items and rules presented in regular articles of ADQ -- Uncle Albert, scenarios, new vehicle types, and even the gaming notes for fiction -- are official. Gadgets and ideas presented in ADQ&A or Backfire are not -- they're just the ideas of one letter-writer, passed on for your amusement and interest.
The exception, of course, is when I specifically say in print something is or is not "official" -- and I'll try to make sure there's no confusion on this point in the future. For example, the gadgets presented the end of John Ford's "Alkahest" story are not official, because I specifically said so, in print, in the article.
But that's not good enough for some. I also get letters asking "Why isn't the x-ray laser (or the attack dog, or the jump rockets, or whatever) official?", or "When will the (fill-in-the-blank) become official?" This brings up an entirely different, and mostly philosophical question.
I'm not so sure it's important at all that any design or rule be crowned, "Official." The final arbiter of any campaign is the referee -- where there is no referee, the ground rules should be commonly decided by all the players. Neither of these situations requires anything to be "official."
We will continue to make the differentiation between official and unofficial rules, because, in some cases, it's important. A game in which a number of players come and go, like a campaign at a gaming club, can't afford to re-argue each point for every new player. An established set of "official" rules can come in very handy. Also, at conventions, where a large number of people who have never faced each other come together, often competing for large prizes, a body of "official" rules are absolutely necessary. In fact, while the question "Is this official?" bothers me quite a bit, the question, "If I play in a tournament you run, can I use this?" makes perfect sense.
While the Steve Jackson Games crew runs a tournament, we will run it according to the Deluxe Car Wars rules. Additional gadgets published in the Uncle Albert's 2035 Catalog, and the Uncle Albert and other gadget company ads of issues of Autoduel Quarterly published since the catalog, are also official. Other new gadgets and rules must be specifically be listed as "official" before they will be allowed.
And those are the exceptions. For most games among a constant group of friends, the rules we publish can be treated like Holy Writ -- or they can be changed top to bottom to suit your desires. It's entirely up to you. I think some experimentation is a good thing -- who knows, you might come up with a new idea that improve the game! (If you do, I expect you to write it up and send it in, of course . . . )
Some would argue that the rules we write take special care to insure game balance, and that rules dreamed up by the players out there are less likely to do that. I'm not sure that's important. If a particular gaming group decided to start making available a "Death Ray" -- 1 space, 50 lbs., $100, 8 dice damage, to-hit 4, unlimited shots (this is not, I repeat, not official) -- that would be OK with me. Because everybody would immediately put eight on their cars, and everybody would be even (dead, but even . . . ). Balance would be preserved. The game would be less fun because everybody would die so quickly, though, and my guess is that after a session or two, they'd stop using it. Game evolution at work! The bad rule has been weeded out by a sort of natural selection. Darwin would be proud.
So, is the attack dog "official?" For your game, if you want it to be, yes. For us, no. But just because we say no doesn't mean you should follow blindly -- for one thing, it makes me feel uncomfortable, and for another, we could be wrong. I'm reminded of the scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian where Brian is trying to convince the multitude parked outside his house not to follow him. "You are all individuals!" he implores. "We are all individuals," the crowd chants back in unison. So much for individuality . . .
So be an individual. We'll continue to put out magazines and supplements
full of great ideas for Car Wars, but it's up to you to decide
whether or not you want to use them. After all, it's your game .
. .
Backfire. Autoduel Quarterly Volume 8 Number 4. AADA Press. Winter 2040. p.30.
NOVA would like to launch an official protest of this year's World Dueling Championship. The event has basically turned into a team event as past champs (from RCADA) get a free ride to the Finals. Also, the tournament should have more attention on vehicular kills than on fancy driving (or jumping).
No one should get a free ride to the Final Round! Let them earn their way! Can you show me an organized sport (other than boxing) that allows a champ to keep coming to the championship? It's very unfair as the past champ(s) only have to compete in one event while the rest have to scrap and scrape for the other final positions.
Norman McMullen
New Omaha Vehicular Association (NOVA) President
Omaha, Nebraska
Norman, Norman, must we do this every year? Nobody who actually attended this year's Championship had any complaints (at least that I've heard), so what are you complaining about?
First of all, only the sitting World Dueling Champion is seeded into the Final Round. There's a reason for this: the sitting champ is target numero uno for the whole tournament. Allowing him to skip to the Final doesn't give him an unfair advantage; it just gives him a fair shot at defending his title. Former champs don't get seeded, despite your insinuation to the contrary. Regional Champions and the previous year's Finalists are seeded in the Semi-Finals. Club Champions (and now Official SJ Games Tournament Refs) start in the Quarter-Finals.
Second, the RCADA keeps winning because they've been dueling longer and better than anyone else. Period. Your ongoing and unjustified innuendoes of favoritism are an insult to everyone who competes in or helps administer the World Dueling Championship.
Finally, how much weight is given to jumps and driving as opposed to vehicle kills is a judgment call. Your opinion is noted.
Chris W. McCubbin
Autoduel Quarterly (ADQ) Editor
Backfire. Autoduel Quarterly Volume 9 Number 1. AADA Press. Spring 2041. p.30.
I, too, must protest this year's World Dueling Championships, but not for the same reason as Norman McMullen of the New Omaha Vehicular Association (NOVA). As a participant, I know that his protests in ADQ 8/4 are untrue, and, for the most part, ridiculous.
While it is true that RCADA members are the most prominent competitors, I now know that Mike Montgomery is a master of the game because I have competed against him. He wins because his car designs and his tactics are flawless. Consequently, his regular opponents are also very good. I remember Jeff Boe in particular. The RCADA does, however, have an advantage in that they play with SJ Games referees and know how each rule will be interpreted well in advance in of the World Dueling Championship Tournament, while the rest of us must guess based on what we read in ADQ and the rulebooks. I cannot judge past tournaments because I did not attend, but this year I found the rules to be based more on David Searle's interpretation of what rules should be, rather than what rules are printed in the Car Wars Compendium Second Edition. If the RCADA has an advantage, it is because they know Searle Wars better than the rest of us.
Mr. Searle is not intentionally biased towards the RCADA. He did, however, contradict his own rulings by changing his mind several times during the same day. And, as I have said, the rules in his mind, not the rules in the book, are the rules we played by. One of these rules in his head was a modifier of +4 for fluid projector guns and spike guns targeting the ground. If a FPG targets the ground at +4 (To-Hit of 1) and vehicles at -2 (To-Hit of 7), what, pray tell, does it hit with a 5? He discovered the reason in this argument (and the rule in the book) and changed his mind after several participants had been eliminated by flaming oil and spike counters placed by fluid projector and spike guns which at least four RCADA players used in pre-Final Tournaments. He made similar contradictions when ruling on whether or not jump jets could be used to sail over a ramcar, avoiding the collision. His lack of respect for ADQ rulings, including one that Mr. Searle himself wrote on the subject in ADQ 7/4, resulted in a long, involved argument that does belong here.
In the future, I hope that steps will be taken to eliminate, or at least reduce, the power that one person's interpretation of the rules have at the AADA World Championship Events, even if he/she is Steve Jackson Games Staff. Two possibilities are majority rule by the contestants and a referee council: A council consisting of three to five people from different regions of the country would remove most of the bias from the game. I have also competed in many duels refereed by the contestants. Admittedly, this system does make for some heated arguments, but it is normally fair. Perhaps ref by contestants to break ties? I'm open to any suggestions, because there has got to be a better to officiate these tournaments.
The other major problem with the World Dueling Championship was the use of the CWC2 errata article in ADQ 8/2. This article contained information vital to some car designs, but ADQ 8/2 was not available to the general public until less than 24 hours before the start of the third round of the tournament! This was after the deadline to turn in car designs for the second and third rounds, and yet these rules were included in play.
Despite my scorn for Norman McMullen of the New Omaha Vehicular Association (NOVA) in other areas, I would like to add my vote that the points in the AADA World Dueling Championship should be weighted more toward vehicular kills. In my experience, if a dueling vehicle can't maneuver well, then it's cannon fodder anyway (especially with ramcars about). High point values for maneuvering only increase the already-too-effective ramcar, a weapon that most good players despise.
Again, congratulations to the winners, because you all are very good players, but I hope that in future World Championship Tournaments the game is played by the rules that are in the book, and not by one man's interpretation of what they "ought to be."
Robert Deis
Golden, Colorado
It is easy to understand the view that the RCADA and the SJ Games Staff are dueling buddies, but it just isn't true (and wouldn't be a serious problem if it was). You've probably played as often (or more) against the RCADA, Rob, as Dave Searle has.
We disagree with your idea that officiating by committee would reduce rules conflict in the AADA World Championship Events (we suspect the opposite), but now the Car Wars Compendium Second Edition has been out for a year and everybody knows what's in it, and this year the AADA World Championship Events will be run according to those rules and no others.
You're right that the lack of the CWC2 additions and errata were a problem -- and a serious one -- but it was an act of God. The delivery service failed to deliver the ADQs to the con when they said they would, leaving us red-faced.
Chris W. McCubbin
Autoduel Quarterly (ADQ) Editor
Backfire. Autoduel Quarterly Volume 9 Number 3. Autumn 2041. p.30.
Duelmaster: Tournaments, Team Tactics, Sportsmanship
{(Editor's Note: The following is an open letter to the NOVA AADA Chapter.)}
So, you guys finally found the guts to challenge us, did you? Where were you? Two of the RCADA were at Origins this year, and we would have gladly pounded your sorry whining butts into the arena floor. Now it's too late. As of August 1, 1991, the RCADA is officially disbanded. We had a good run, though. Five World Dueling Championships, two seconds and one third place, plus Regional wins too numerous to recall. Now it is time to go on to other things. I am rather mercenary about tournament play; I go where the prizes are the largest. When SJ Games starts offering cash prizes for the World Dueling Championships, you'll see me again. Ray Morriss, long a bastion of RCADA strength, is more interested in other games now. Ken Scott is the Car Wars Guru, and has gone on to a higher plane of existence. Ben Ellinger is working, but plays now and then. Scott Mercer is pursuing a biochemistry degree from UT Austin and has contracted a terribe case of "Europa." Mike Montgomery is retired (out to stud?) and rumored to be stalking the ** {Star Fleet Battles} ** national championship; I predict he'll win it inside three years. The remarkable Jeff Boe had only played the game five times when he won the World Dueling Championships. He also has been drawn into higher pursuits (like earning a salary) and other games. Earl Cooley, official RCADA Polemicist, rarely attends tournaments anymore. Earl did more to defend our reputation on the local and national computer bulletin boards than anyone. He spoke when the rest of were silent.
It used to be fulfilling just to beat other people in the arena, but in the final analysis that's not a good way to play the game. I get the impression you boys play Car Wars a lot. The RCADA really only played at tournaments and the club championships. We didn't play for recreation, we played to win tournaments. I can honestly say that the RCADA was the deadliest group of Car Wars players I remember playing with.
So, sorry guys, there's no more RCADA left to challenge. You may see some of us competing as independents, but the club is gone. If you still want to gun for me, or Ray, or Jeff, or Earl, be my guest. I wouldn't give a plug nickel for your chances, though. If you want to challenge someone, go after GHOST. Those guys are plenty good, certainly good enough to go round and round with y'all.
I'll say one last word about team tactics. No, maybe I won't. You folks will think we used team tactics no matter what I say. Think what you like.
P.S. Did you know your club name means "no go" in Spanish? Backfire, 9/3
Tim Ray
RCADA President-For-Life
AADA News. Autoduel Quarterly Volume 9 Number 4. Winter 2041. p.5.
AADA: Tournaments, Team Events
Duelmaster: Rules Lawyers, Sportsmanship
More NOVA Wars
Here's the situation. In ADQ 9/2 NOVA, the gadfly AADA chapter in Omaha, issues a challenge to meet the RCADA in a head-on, team-to-team duel at next year's combined Origins/GenCon convention. In ADQ 9/3, the RCADA unexpectedly disbands, but not without a few final digs in NOVA's direction. You'd think it might end there, but no . . .
First, NOVA President Norman McMullen's response to RCADA President-For-Life Tim Ray.
"Mr. Ray, your comments were unneeded. NOVA still wants a grudge match against as many ex-RCADAers as you can dig up. We will not have a match with GHOST, because we have no beef against them. MADD and Craig Sheeley are not worth the ammo."
In the meantime, several other parties have decided to interest themselves in this affair. First, Robert Deis, President of TRACCS, challenges NOVA with:
"We at the Regional Autodueling Association of Colorado Springs are a small but skilled chapter, and have waited a long time for a chance to take you on in man-to-man combat. I have read your "house rules" and can tell you that they show a basic lack of understanding of the rules of the game. We pick up your gauntlet and slap you with it."
"Our finances and mobility are limited, but Genghis Con in Denver, CO this February is a place where we could meet. We use the rules published in Car Wars Compendium Second Edition, and play it by the book. ADQ variants and the events can be discussed just between us, if you can make the trip and accept the challenge."
"Drop me a letter. I'll be waiting."
"Robert Deis, TRACCS President, Colorado Springs, CO."
Ouch. Robert Deis obviously knows how to hit a gamer where it hurts -- questioning their knowledge of the rules! But has he pushed it too far?
Chris W. McCubbin
ADQ Editor
Backfire. Autoduel Quarterly Volume 10 Number 2. Summer 2042. p.30.
AADA: Team Events
Duelmaster: Sportsmanship
Judging by recent responses, I believe NOVA (and our challenges) has been misjudged. To begin with, we plan to meet all challengers who wish to engage us. This is not meant to be bullying, but to show our commitment. It doesn't matter whether it's ASP or another AADA chapter.
It it seemed like we were trying to come off as "the baddest chapter," then realize that was not our intent. Even though we have many rules of dueling under our belts, we can be beaten. Also, we enjoy a good duel. Since the AADA has been pushing for chapter-to-chapter challenges for years, NOVA chose a worthy opponent. (Granted, some annoyance was involved.) Now that the RCADA has expired and its members have scattered to the four winds, I leave creation of opinions concering its individual members to all of you out there.
For years, one of NOVA's main goals (not that anyone has noticed it yet) has been to increase and improve communication between duelists, dueling chapters and SJ Games. If it takes a challenge or two to do so, so be it, although I'd rather not promote bad blood between them. NOVA knows all too well what that results in.
We'd rather have a good duel and shake hands afterwards, to be honest. NOVA prefers to duel honestly, courteously and tactfully. We are offended by those who cannot do so. We are sorry, but we saw RCADA as an example of such behavior.
Whether NOVA duels at all, some or none of the other chapters, is up to them. Otherwise, NOVA will see them at the World Championships with no bitter feelings. We hope other duelists are able to do the same.
Car Wars is just a game and is for fun. Anyone who takes it personally deserves everything he gets. NOVA would rather have friends than foes any day.
We may not like all of the "back door" rules changes, but, like everyone else, we live with them. On a local level (inter-NOVA), we choose which kind of item (old rules or new rules) we prefer. No, we don't like the "new and improved" gas engines, jumping rules, VFRPs, RGMs and ramplates. And we would like to see the return of the Blank Map Sheets.
Enough said.
Norman McMullen
NOVA President
Omaha, NE
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: Robert Deis
Posted: 10/13/98 4:08 PM
Dear Robert Deis:
Your invitation to subscribe to Pyramid to access the Pyramid Car Wars
Message Board is nice, but I suspect that the $15 subscription cost is
too high for most Car Wars players interested in getting Car Wars material.
Yes, there is a recent Uncle Albert's entry and there was the
Autoduel Japan article in May (however that article was available in
Pyramid 30) so will there be more Car Wars articles? Are writer's guidelines
for submitting to Pyramid more relaxed now that Pyramid is Web-based
(as long as grammar and spelling are perfect, almost anything goes)? I
suspect one of the main reasons of the success of CWIN is submission
guidelines are simple: if it is in English, contains only a minor amount
of errata and discusses Car Wars, it will be accepted.
P.S. Yes, I know that you are now the Webmaster for the SJ Games Car
Wars Web Pages. I placed that news in CWIN 01.08 right before I
packed my computer for my move to Seattle. The next newsletter will
likely be released on October 15, 1998.
From: Michael P. Owen
To: Robert Deis
Posted: 10/13/98 4:19 PM
Dear Robert Deis:
Please name some "Official" people that visit the Pyramid Message Board
for Car Wars. If the visitors to this board know that someone at SJ
Games or AADA Leadership is an active member in Car Wars, you will
likely have more of the duelists here subscribe to Pyramid and post
rules questions there.
I do not mean to be impolite Robert, but the organization of the Car
Wars Web Pages on the SJ Games Web Site is much less than to be
desired. If those pages are organized, cleansed of errata and news
reports are displayed on a regular basis, I suspect more gamers will become
interested in the SJ Games Web Pages for Car Wars again at a high enough
level to send $15.00 U.S. to Austin for a Pyramid Subscription.
I talked to several VIPs in the Car Wars world two years ago and they
told me that the Illuminati Online Car Wars Message Board was literally
dead. I am glad I saved my money for IO access.
If there is more activity on the Pyramid CWMB and that forum remains
active, you might see me on it but I am like most of the autoduelists using
this board: If SJ Games shows some real support for Car Wars, the fans
will spend more time around the SJ Games Web Site. History repeats itself
all too often. The legacy of Car Wars is full of projects being proposed
by SJ Games time and time again but then do not come to fruition.
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: ALL
Posted: 6/14/98 11:49 AM
This message is intended for newcomers to this forum.
Although this forum can be a free-for-all discussion I would like to ask its participants to follow a few rules.
First, please keep your posts limited to Car Wars, GURPS, Formula De
and other vehicular games. Discussion of books and movies with car
combat is fine. So far this has been great.
Second, passionate debate is great, negative postings are not. So far I have never seen a problem with this so keep up the great work.
Third, related to the second issue, is that this forum is primarily
aimed for gamers who autoduel at home therefore rules variants discussed
are
welcomed and encouraged. If however you want to discuss areas of Car
Wars for tournament play please state the following in your message:
"AADA-Compatible answers please. Thank you."
Although the answers on this forum are not to be viewed as Official
AADA Policy, answers that address tournament-specific questions
should hopefully give greater understanding for tournament combatants.
Of course the best source of answers when playing in tourneys
would be to ask the DuelMaster in charge of the event.
When answering questions that address AADA Event issues only use Car
Wars Compendium Second Edition, Uncle Albert's Catalog From
Hell and Classic Car Wars for references.
If you are replying to questions that do not require AADA answers then feel free to use any source for reference including Car Wars resources from the Internet.
The categories are not set in concrete. They are present only to inspire
conversations and to provide some organization to this forum. If a
thread discusses Weapons for example than leads to Movement then GURPS
DarkFutureTech, great. You do not need to post to different
sections.
I believe the "rules" above are more common sense then anything, intended
to promote active debate that is also positive and constructive.
Because SJ Games as of date does not provide an Official AADA question-and-answer
source this forum (and the CRADA Web Site Message
Board) are two of the few places to get close to "Official" answers.
This is the first time I am in charge of a message board therefore I
ask you to be patient with me. Any comments or suggestions are very
welcomed. Hopefully this forum will be useful to you whether you play
at home or in the World Championship Events.
Probably the best use of this forum is to present new ideas and to ask
questions on the rules. I am happy to see that this forum is turning out
to be a good replacement for the AutoDuel Question and Answer column
in ADQ which is no longer printed.
Thanks for making Dueling Debate great. Have fun! :-)
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: ALL
Posted: 9/23/98 2:02 PM
I do not mind debate and discussion about rules, but I want to make
it perfectly clear with some of you: Keep it clean and polite. If discussions
(and so far I have not seen a problem) start to get out of hand, I
will impose (board access) sanctions on you from inconvenient to severe.
This is not a threat. This is a promise. This is my message board and I
intend it to remain a friendly place for Car Wars players of any type,
house
rules, tournament, novice and veteran.
I am not being impolite here. I just want to prevent problems in the future.
Thank you for your assistance.
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: ALL
Posted: 10/13/98 4:43 PM
Some of you appear to have ignored some of my previous messages. I will again repeat the policy of this forum.
First, you should not consider any of the discussions on this message board as sanctioned by SJ Games nor the AADA.
If you do want questions answered about AADA Tournament Events, ask your duelmaster or racemaster!
If you really need an answer about AADA gaming policy, and you cannot
find someone (the Pyramid Car Wars Message Board might be a
good place but I do not know how reliable it is nor if "Top-Level AADA
Officials" visit there on a regular basis) at SJ Games to answer your
query, feel free to post your question here with the following label:
"AADA-Compatible answers please."
The answers will not be AADA-Sanctioned however they might be close enough for you to use until you can access SJ Games for an "Official" answer.
Second, this message board is meant to consider topics about Car Wars (as well as GURPS DarkFutureTech and Formula De) in all environments, house rules and tournaments.
Third, debate is excellent but ridicule and abuse of referencing to
rulebooks is not. Messages on DD should be supported by references to
rules and not entirely based on the pages in CWC2.5, UACFH, etc.
Fourth, please ask any question you like. If it can be easily found
in a rulebook, great. If it cannot be found in a text, then you have found
an
excellent place to find an answer (and likely you will find multiple
answers).
Fifth, keep this message board a positive place. I want this forum to be useable by both house rules and AADA duelists, novices and experts. If I see posts that have negative comments or do not follow these rules, I, the Forum Wizard, have the authority to prevent you from posting or to ban you entirely from the board.
I am not being power-hungry here or a bully. I created this message board to be a friendly place and I will not allow it to become like the USENET newsgroups where both players who abuse rules and posts that do not discuss gaming at all are present on those forums regularly.
If you have any questions on these policies, please elmay me. I do not
think these rules are restrictive. I hope they are common sense.
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: ALL
Posted: 10/19/98 10:33 PM
One result of using this message board I hope is to generate a consensus
on some rules, whether leaving some the way they are, revising the
description of rules to make them easier to understand or to change
rules entirely. If some of these discussions are really interesting, it
would be my hope that the results of those debates be sent to SJ Games
for consideration to be made AADA-Sanctioned Rules.
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: ALL
Posted: 10/19/98 9:44 PM
Steven Vawter, Magnus Karlsson and several other autoduelists who visit this message board have made excellent comments.
Dueling Debate was created my me because <news:rec.games.board>
and the Illuminati Online Car Wars Message Board were nearly "dead" in
terms of Car Wars discussions. When I first discovered about Delphi's
CustomForums, when visiting the CF for the Apple II Computer for
assistance with my Apple IIGS, I was impressed with the format where
the CF Wizard could eliminate posts not related to the message board's
topics. USENET newsgroups have a large problem with off-topic posts
and often those messages are, well, "colorful."
There has been a lot of discussion on whether you can or you cannot
do something in Car Wars and whether those actions are used in AADA
Tournaments. This message board was built by me because I wanted to
provide a place where the problems of the Car Wars rules system
could be discussed in a polite and logical manner. I am not interesting
in trying to clarify every piece of errata in the Car Wars rules system
because that task would be too challenging to perform here.
The best solution for the AADA Rules Versus House Rules Debate is for
someone, preferably SJ Games, to write a text that is nearly identical
to the Classic Car Wars rulebook. This supplement would only contain
rules that are pertinent to AADA Tournament Competition. Examples of
these rules would be construction guidelines for cars, cycles, sidecars,
trikes and racing cars. Weapons and ammo would be limited to those only
permitted on the vehicles listed above, with omission of AADA-Forbidden
and military technologies. This book should cost no more than $10.00 U.S.
In order to solve the problem of duelmasters and racemasters using variant
rules, one of SWAT's members (not me) suggested that a period of
30 minutes before a tournament for players to ask the referee on rules
questions and custom interpretations of the rules (if any). Any rules
changes in effect should be printed on multiple copies of paper before
the tournament available for all players to view. Once the 30-minute
discussion is over, let the rubber burn! :-)
If you have questions about the policies above, I suggest you contact
the Championship Autodueling Circuit, Death Racing Association of
Washington State and the New Omaha Vehicular Association. These three
Car Wars gaming groups have operated many tournaments
with variant rules in effect. Their experience in how to use present
a tournament with or without house rules is excellent and is a resource
that I
highly recommend anyone planning to duelmaster or racemaster a Car
Wars tournament investigate as one of the first steps in preparation for
the event.
Several people have told me that the Pyramid Car Wars Message Board
has active support from the Pyramid Editor S. John Ross. This is great
news because S. John has expressed a great interest in resurrecting
Car Wars. I have been informed that there are few rules discussions on
the PCWMB as compared to here so if you need an "AADA-Compatible" answer
and need it fast, I suggest you try posting your query to the
PCWMB. If you get S. John Ross to give you an Official answer quickly
then Car Wars players (Finally!) have a source to get "stone tablet"
rulings for Car Wars again like in ADQ's Q&A column.
Subject: MOTORCYCLES, TARGETING, THIRD SPACES RULE
From: tlentz (TLENTZ)
To: ALL
Posted: 9/25/98 7:53 AM
I took a pair of motorcycles in our last local duel. I wanted to try
out the rocket sidecar. Both cycles ended up meeting ramplates :-( One
of them
sandwiched between two ram-plated cars going head-on at a combined
speed of 170 mph. Everybody became confetti. Whee!!
Anyhow, a few questions came up that we couldn't find the answer to in the rules:
1) What are a cycle's firing arcs? Do you draw diagonal lines through the cycle counter making four 45-degree arcs, or would the arcs be similar to a car-sized counter?
2) Are cycles subject to the 1/3 spaces per side rule? We ruled no, but couldn't find anything in the rules for or against it.
Tom
From: (RDEIS)
To: tlentz (TLENTZ)
Posted: 9/25/98 10:52 AM
1) Draw lines through the corners. This does make cycle firing arcs bigger than car arcs.
2) No, they're not subject to it.
It'll take some time to dig up the supporting rules, though.
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: tlentz (TLENTZ)
Posted: 9/25/98 1:05 PM
Dear Tom:
First, cycles have firing arcs exactly like cars. Because of the small
amount of space on a cycle, mounting weapons to have larger firing arcs
than the standard arcs would be difficult. Remember that cyclists,
cycle gunners and cycle passengers (sidecar gunners and sidecar
passengers too) have a 360-degree arc of fire when using hand weapons.
Second, cycles are not required to follow the third-spaces rule. Time
and time again in Autoduel Quarterly the ruling on this subject (everyone
repeat this one with me) was: "Cycles are exempt from the third-spaces
rule. Why? Cycles need all the help they can get."
From: (RDEIS)
To: ALL
Posted: 9/25/98 1:18 PM
If, however, one thinks that the weapons on a cycle are mounted to swivel
with the front wheel, it makes perfect sense to give them a larger
firing arc.
Add to that the fact that:
A) there's not a good way to draw firing arcs the same ar car arcs off a cycle counter,
B) Cycles need all the help they can get as you said, and I'd recommend the bigger arcs.
Choose the one that makes more sense to you and go with it. Cycles seldom
show up in multi-club AADA events, so that's probably not an issue for
you.
From: MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
To: (RDEIS)
Posted: 9/26/98 10:14 PM
Mounting a weapon with the front tire makes sense if you have very short
weapons, such as machine guns. But try doing that with say a
recoilless rifle, you turn the handle to aim and bang against a leg
(OUCH). No, that just won't work due to the physical limitations
of the
cycles. Mounting weapons in the main chassis of the cycle above the
wheel makes more sense. Try again.
Norman
From: (RDEIS)
To: MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
Posted: 9/29/98 3:28 PM
You picked up the reality check, but ignored the two playability issues,
which are really more important. But, since you want to argue reality
instead of Car Wars, add this:
The recoilless rifle you mention can be tripod-mounted and used by a pedestrian, which would be very similar to mounting it with the handle bars.
Still, the playability is the important part: corner-to-corner arcs
are easiest to use, cycles need all the help they can get, and <gasp!>
corner-to-corner arcs are in the rulebook!
From: MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
To: (RDEIS)
Posted: 10/11/98 6:07 PM
Gee, I didn't mention weight, balance and recoil in the equation either.
And reality has to be seen in any game. Even AD&D look into weapon
speed and how they are carried.
If you wish to "Escape reality, play a game", that's your concern. Just remember you aren't the only one playing the game.
Car Wars is not the Movies or TV series. Hence, it must take some cues from reality. Otherwise we're all sunk.
A cycle could mount one space of weaponry on the front handlebar armor
at most. Over that, the weapons must go into the main body of the
cycle. For additional arcs of fire I suggest jinxing the cycle. Think
about it.
Norman
From: (RDEIS)
To: MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
Posted: 10/13/98 3:29 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. Silly me thought there was a rulebook for a reason.
From: MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
To: (RDEIS)
Posted: 10/16/98 6:36 PM
The rulebook is just a guideline, not the end all to all questions.
You have to go beyond the rulebook sometimes. That's why we have this
forum. Besides the Car Wars Compendium Second Edition is a mangled
patchwork of rules, a book that looks like something out of Dr. Frankenstein's
Lab.
Norman
From: Steve Vawter (STEEVE13)
To: MGARRITY (MGARRITY) UNREAD
Posted: 10/19/98 1:59 PM
On the flip side, you aren't the only one playing the game either. If you decide to create a ton of house rules and then go to a con where they play by the rulebook (yes, the choked up CWC ed. 2.1 or the better CWC ed 2.5) you may have some trouble adjusting. Which creates a slower game due to vehicle redesigns to make them "legal", arguments about interpretations of the rules that are really about house rules and so forth. Or, in the case of one of your crowd running a game at a con with your house rules, everyone else who plays by the SJ Games official rules being at a significant disadvantage.
I guess that I would be much happier if people asked their questions better. Not "Can I?", which sounds like a rule question, but "Should I be able to?" Because, no, by the rules, you can't. Maybe we should reason out within the rules why you should be able to because guess what might happen then? The rules might change to what you envisioned. But this can't happen unless people reason out logic within the rules why it should change, not based on reality. After all, it's a game, not a simulation . . .
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: ALL
Posted: 12/17/98 3:28 PM
I have a method that would permit SJ Games to resurrect Car Wars products and to increase the numbers of people subscribing to Pyramid (which would increase SJ Games profits): begin placing the Car Wars Line (except CWC2.5, UACFH and CCW, because for the time being those are still being printed) on SJ Games Web Site. Subscribers to Pyramid Internet Magazine would only be able to access these supplements to read or download. The ADQ Archive would still remain open to the general public.
--
Michael P. Owen / owenmp@hotmail.com / owenmp@serv.net
Seattle WA Autoduel Team Gaming Group
(Car Wars, GURPS, Formula De)
Car Wars Internet Newsletter Publisher
SWAT Matrix Headquarters http://www.serv.net/~owenmp/swathome.html
From: IAundergrnd (SMILEYAL)
To: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
Posted: 12/17/98 5:51 PM
I like that. Someday I will get a subscription to Pyramid, and that
would definitely get me to get one faster.
From: MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
To: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
Posted: 12/19/98 7:41 PM
I subscribe to Pyramid, but (except for the Sonic Cannon Uncle Al's Catalog), I hardly have seen any Car Wars articles in it. Except for the Worlds write ups, there's nothing. It's all GURPS or MIB or Whatever else, but no Car Wars. Makes you think they forgot about the game or want to forget about it. Hmmmmm.
I know NOVA and others have submitted articles and new supplements to
SJG. And they never got published. Not even one. Where they all go??? Into
the Texas Triangle, I think.
From: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
To: MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
Posted: 12/19/98 11:30 PM
Dear NOVA:
You are correct about Pyramid having a very small amount of Car Wars material. This characteristic of the magazine is why I proposed the publishing of out-of-print Car Wars supplements on the Pyramid Web Site. It is very likely SJ Games will not reprint any of the Car Wars products that are OOP soon therefore the Web would be a good place for those items. Allowing Pyramid subscribers only to access the Car Wars goodies would help make a small amount of profit for SJ Games which may convince them to invest in Car Wars again.
--
Michael P. Owen / owenmp@hotmail.com / owenmp@serv.net
Seattle WA Autoduel Team Gaming Group
(Car Wars, GURPS, Formula De)
Car Wars Internet Newsletter Publisher
SWAT Matrix Headquarters http://www.serv.net/~owenmp/swathome.html
From:MGARRITY (MGARRITY)
To: Michael P. Owen (OWENMP)
Posted: 12/20/98 7:36 PM
I like that idea. Hopefully all the supplements are updated and corrected when they are published on the Pyramid site.
Norman
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:49:13 -0700
From: Robert Deis <rdeis@io.com>
To: owenmp@ior.com
Subject: Re: AADA 2047-2048 World Duel/Race Championship Forum
Michael P. Owen wrote: I just wanted to make sure that I told you I will be placing the message about the committee regarding the World Tournaments in the April 01 Issue of CWIN.
Great! Thanks, Mike. Let me add some things to make sure we've got our signals straight: The AADA World Dueling Championship Committee will welcome suggestions and etc. for the Dueling Event but not the Racing Event. I wouldn't say that racing suggestions aren't welcome, but it's likely that the Committee will have no power over the Racing Event. We and NOVA are working out who exactly has power over what, and I'll get that information to you when it is available. Thanks for checking in!
I think that placing the Championships in September is a great idea, enabling Regional Events to occur with more time available.
As long as we don't miss anyone that could have come during Summer break, I agree.
Oh, one other note about the CWIN vs. the Worlds. You are publishing several rules variants. This is great, variants have a way of spicing up the game and helping it evolve. However, this can confuse people that are coming to AADA Tournaments because they don't know which variants will be in effect and which will not. For the record, the WDC Tournament will only use rules published by SJ Games in the form of CW rulebooks, ADQ, or Pyramid.
It would make our lives easier, and help the World Championship Matches
go smoother if you clearly label all the variants in CWIN as variants that
people are free to use, and make it clear that they are not "Official rules."
Thanks!
From - Mon May 04 13:02:21 1998
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:57:36 -0600
From: Robert Deis <rdeis@io.com>
Organization: BATC
To: owenmp@ior.com
Subject: Re: CWIN 01.03
I'm looking for Mike Garrity's article about the 2046-2047 AADA World Dueling Tournament and not finding it. Where is it? All I found was an article on the 2042 match in old Nightmessenger back issues.
Also, I'll pipe in on that jumping/falling rules question for your next issue. If I don't have a good answer to you a week or so before your deadline, remind me . . .
For now, here's two things to help you out:
First: Falling damage, distance, and speed haven't changed (I think) from Deluxe Car Wars and the original CWC or CWC2- in UACFH jumping rules were updated to be consistent with that information. One of those old charts will work just fine if you're falling (or leaping) off of a flat surface. If the surface is angled, things get harder.
Before UACFH, jumping rules ignored the whole question of altitude, jump jets, and, to be honest, physics and gravity. This created huge problems when a couple of RMADA members (yes, it's partly my fault) used jump jets in innovative ways in the 2040 AADA WDC Tournament and the rules of the day couldn't handle it.
Second: There is an absolutely fantastic set of charts on the Web for use with jumping and falling. Sorry I don't have a URL handy, but I've printed these off and laminated them as part of my regular rules compliment. They show, amongst other things, the current altitude (relative to jump point) and falling collision speed each phase after the jump/fall begins, all calculated using the UACFH jumping rules.
If you locate those I'd point anyone who asks about the jumping rules to them. They don't cover everything, but they do cover the most common situations you'll find dueling. If you go outside them, you'll have to calculate it yourself.
Oh, and one more little editorial comment that I could turn in to a short article for you if you want. In my opinion, the term "duelmaster" in place of "referee" is very dangerous. "Duelmaster" is very obviously an adaptation of "gamemaster," used to describe the person in charge of any role playing game. In any RPG, the rules are simply a framework, and the gamemaster is free to warp them or adjust the "reality" of the situation to fit his image and move the action along down the plotline. This works beautifully for RPGs, whose purpose is to get in to the world and play a character that lives there.
I have seen many people who describe themselves as duelmasters hold this same view toward CW, and it simply doesn't work. CW, especially in the tournament environment, is a tactical simulation game. The rules define the reality, and must be absolutely paramount. No one "masters" them.
A referee's job is simply to enforce the rules, move the game along, and, on occasion, resolve disputes where players disagree about who's-in-who's range and such things. He can not, and must not, ever, contradict the rules he has said the game will use or the game loses all resemblance it might have had to a coherent simulation.
That got longer than I anticipated. Do want me to flesh it out in to an article for you?
The 2048 WDC Web Pages will be ready to publish soon, I'll let you know when they are. For now, would you, as a potential player, look over the pages and let me know what you think of them in general? Are they easy to use, well laid out, that sort of thing. Here's a link to get you started:<http://www.io.com/~rdeis/2048WC.html>. Again, these are not fully ready for the public yet, so don't publish the URL just yet. They should be by the end of the week, though. I'll let you know.
Thanks for your help and work on CWIN.
Subject: Potpourri Paintsprayer Ammunition
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 13:21:36 -0700
To: rdeis@io.com
Dear Robert:
Michael Garrity's tournament article was located in the "AADA News" Section near the beginning of the newsletter. I almost always update the SWAT Jump Page with all of the URLs I include in each CWIN at the same time I mail CWIN (this is to make sure I have functional links; I may make errors in CWIN but I double my efforts to keep the Jump Page state-of-the-art). Michael's analysis is located there in the CWIN and SWAT Sections. However for your convenience here is the URL:
A Technical Analysis of the 2046-2047 AADA World Dueling Championships
http://www.serv.net/~owenmp/AADA/wdt2047.html
It is my opinion that AADA Events run themselves with the players knowing the rules and the "overseer" guiding the combat according to a specific set of rules:
I like the Web Site for the World Championships. It would be cool if when you receive Chapter and Regional Champions there would be a series of interactive maps like James Barton's Opponent Finder that lists where these ace autoduelists come from. Simply listing a graphic of the state or country where they are from or having a world map with each city highlighted (non-interactive map) would be an acceptable option too. The graphic at the top (world map/globe with AADA logo) is nice.
Your discussion about the arbitrator of tournaments is interesting. You should note that I did not coin the term duelmaster. I acquired it from the following source: Duelmaster: Hints for Car Wars Referees. Autoduel Quarterly Volume 2, Number 2. AADA Press. Summer 2034. pp.4-6.
The author of this article was Steve Jackson himself.
You should note that Mr. Jackson uses the terms duelmaster and referee interchangeably in that ultra-useful article.
Duel with you later.
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 10:16:20 -0600
From: Robert Deis <rdeis@io.com>
Organization: BATC
To: owenmp@ior.com
Subject: Re: Potpourri Paintsprayer Ammunition
Michael P. Owen said, It is my opinion that AADA Events run themselves with the players knowing the rules and the "overseer" . . .
My opinion exactly. The problem arises when an "odd" situation occurs and the answer in the rules appears unrealistic. Far too many DuelMasters step in and enforce what, in their opinion, would really happen. A good referee will stick to the rules.
This is not to say that there is no place for house rules -- the ultimate purpose of CW is fun, and if house rules make the game more fun for your group, then by all means use them.
In a tournament that included more than just one group, however, the rules must be used to the letter, because that's the only version of "reality" that all of the groups know about.
Your discussion about the arbitrator of tournaments is interesting. You should note that I did not coin the term duelmaster. I acquired it from the following source: "Duelmaster" by Steve Jackson. ADQ 2/2. Summer 2034.
Well, that wouldn't be the first time that Steve Jackson or SJ Games
has made a decision intended to help CW that ultimately hurt it.
Such is life. I am interested in the article, though . . . I'll have
to go read it.
The Firing Range: Referees and Duelmasters. Car Wars Internet Newsletter
Volume 1 Number 4. SWAT Press. June 01, 2048.
http://www.serv.net/~owenmp/CWIN/is0104.html
Dear CWIN:
This turned out to be almost of "article" quality, so call it a submission to CWIN. Reply with and changes or comments you wish to make as the CWIN editor.
I've become somewhat concerned about the use of the term "Duelmaster" describing events recently. To me the term is uncomfortable like "gamemaster," who is someone that is a god for all intents and purposes, and well above the rules of the game. After some research (and some suggestions from others) I found the origin of the term in the following reference:
Duelmaster: Hints for Car Wars Referees. Steve Jackson. AutoDuel Quarterly Volume 2, Number 2. Summer 2034. AADA Press. pp.4-6.
I read that article, and I learned a few things. The Duelmaster has a very important role in the world of Car Wars, but it must be noted that this role is very different than the role of a Referee. Each have their place, and few things will hurt players more than having a Duelmaster where a Referee belongs or vice versa.
There are two factors that go in to enjoying a game: Fun and Fair.
For role playing, and even non-role playing home games with a regular group of people, Fun is paramount. A good Duelmaster will bend or contradict rules as he or she feels in necessary to keep the scenario moving along and Fun for his players. That article contains excellent advice and suggestions for Duelmasters of this type of game. Note also that the vast majority of SJ Games products are roleplaying systems. They've even gone to a great deal of trouble to try and build a roleplaying system around Car Wars. This article is very consistent with that way of doing things, and as I said, great advice for people running those sorts of games. Everyone is there "for Fun," and winning or losing is not the point.
For Tournament Dueling, Fair is paramount. The fun of these types of games comes from clean, Fair, hard-fought competition. This is the domain of the Referee, not the Duelmaster. A referee does not have the power to bend or disregard rules. He or she has a responsibility to the players to uphold all the rules, as written, to the letter. Anything else would not be Fair, and when Fair leaves this kind of game, the competition in no longer clean and tough, so the fun departs soon after.
House rules are fine, provided everyone has practice with them and agrees to them ahead of time. In any case, these added or changed rules need to be written down somewhere for reference during the game. In larger matches where players come from many different groups that use many different sets of house rules, it is more fair to stick with the rules printed in SJ Games products and avoid all house rules so no group has an inherent advantage over any other.
Summarizing: In a game that's "Just for Fun," it is the Duelmaster's responsibility to make it fun, and if doing so means bending or disregarding rules, then so be it. However, in a Tournament Duel, the Referee's responsibility is to make the game Fair, and if he or she does so, then Fun will take care of itself through the good, clean competition between the players.
This attitude is reflected in the 2048 AADA World Championship Q&A Web Page. Rules questions there are answered with quotations from the printed word whenever possible, and in some cases we've gone back as far as ADQ Volume Three to get those answers. Where no clear answer can be found in the rules, the Tournament Committee discusses the matter thoroughly to make a ruling that is as consistent as possible with the spirit of the written rule while maintaining good game balance. These rulings are then written down for all to see on the Web Site and several copies will be available in print at the tournament.
Robert Deis
Rocky Mountain Autodueling Association (RMADA)
Subject: Re: John's ideas for Car Wars
From: Robert Deis <rdeis@io.com>
Date: 18:18:12, Oct 11, 1998
Group: Car Wars
At 13:53:08, Oct 09, 1998, John Fiala (jcfiala@cssltd.com) wrote: a) Re-release a rules set that doesn't mention boats, hovercraft, tanks . . .
Two options here. One is a classic rules set, as in the $10 box everyone's mentioned, which would take zero development time, it just needs reprinted and distributed. (This is currently in print now, right? I've heard it's destined to go out of print soon.)
Second option, and a new product, would be an AADA rules guide that ignores non-wheeled vehicles, probably ignoring oversized vehicles and tanks, too, but firms up all the weak spots in current AADA rules, and collects all the Q&A from the past 15 years and includes it. I've been wanting to write this book for some time now.
b) Re-work the jumping rules so there's a table
Said table exists, we use it at RMADA all the time, though it took some practice to get used to. It's on an unofficial Web Site: <http://www.versaserver.com/jeff/games/carwars.html>.
c) Correct software for building vehicles.
There are a lot of people working on a lot of versions for this. The
trick is to make it easy to use and make it enforce all the
construction rules.
I haven't seen one yet that can do it, though Sumit Sarkar of RMADA
claims he's got a really good one finished. We'll see how it comes out
after I get my hands on it to test. <evil grin>
d) e) f) More miniatures support
Pictures, especially, are a good idea.
h) Keep up the new gadgets, but keep them as balanced as the Sonic Cannon.
Just be careful about playtesting. A flow of gadgets so "balanced" that
they never get used isn't a particularly good idea, and most of the
problems that have come up in the past with abuses came from different,
normally innocuous, gadgets interacting with each other. We also
need to be careful to have all the questions we can answered when the gadget
is released.
If we can get a large playtest base for this stuff, I'm all for
it. I like new stuff!
Subject: Delphi Dueling Debate
From: Robert Deis <rdeis@io.com>
Date: 18:31:01, Oct 11, 1998
Group: Car Wars
S. John, have you been keeping up with the conversation on the Dueling Debate CustomForum at <http://www.delphi.com/carwars>?
I do not know if you want to stimulate or participate in that discussion,
but I think you want to keep abreast of it. There's a lot of talk
there about making new rules and products, some of which, in my opinion,
are good ideas, and some of which really aren't.
I'd like to see the good ideas growing, and more of the Delphi posters coming over here to join us . . .
There's also a big need out there for a good Q&A Web Site (as evidenced
by discussion on the Delphi Board). The 2048 AADA WDC site is a good start,
but I'd like some ideas for organizing a bigger/better one.
Subject: Re: Delphi Dueling Debate
From: S. John Ross <sjohn@io.com>
Date: 21:48:43, Oct 11, 1998
Group: Car Wars
S. John, have you been keeping up with the conversation on the Dueling Debate CustomForum at <http://www.delphi.com/carwars>?
No. I barely have time to read the three Pyramid Message Boards that I do; keeping up with all the different fan-forums is literally impossible.
I do not know if you want to stimulate or participate in that discussion,
but I think you want to keep abreast of it. There's a lot of talk
there about making new rules and products, some of which, in my
opinion, are good ideas, and some of which really aren't.
If it ever occurs to anyone to condense the good ideas into a simple, readable letter and mail them to me, I'd be very happy to put them in the Big Pile of Good Ideas.
If it ever occurs to anyone to cut and paste an entire thread, unedited, and send it to me, I'd be very happy to delete it ;)
There's also a big need out there for a good Q&A Web Site (as evidenced by discussion on the Delphi Board). The 2048 AADA WDC site is a good start, but I'd like some ideas for organizing a bigger/better one.
You're in it ;)
|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Pyramid Guru
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
Subject: Tournament Rule Sets
From: Robert Deis <rdeis@io.com>
Date: 18:37:57, Oct 18, 1998
Group: Car Wars
Am I the only only that thinks printed rules are meant to be followed?
I'm catching all kinds of hell on outside message boards for quoting
rulebooks when people are more interested in "common sense." I'm all
for reasonableness, actually, but the trouble is that one man's "common
sense" is another's lunacy, so the first time you play with someone you've
never met before you have to spend the whole game learning what his version
of "common sense" is, and if that's the only time you meet you're screwed.
If you just use the flippin' rules nobody has this problem. So, am I nuts?
Subject: Re: Tournament Rule Sets
From: Magnus Karlsson <magnus.a.karlsson@home.se>
Date: 02:14:49, Oct 19, 1998
Group: Car Wars
I have wondered the same thing (not that if you are nuts :-) ). The main advantage as I see it with following the rules is that you don't have to run into any surprises when you play with other groups of people (I get quite annoyed when I show up at a tournament and the referee uses a lot of house rules that only his friends in the game knew of beforehand, and this has happened more times than I care to mention . . . ).
I don't care that much for real-world interpretations of the rules, it's a game (but I won't say "just a game") and nobody accuses Monopoly for being an unrealistic simulation of the real-estate market . . .
Mvh /Magnus A. Karlsson
Subject: Re: Tournament Rule Sets
From: S. John Ross <sjohn@io.com>
Date: 08:10:55, Oct 19, 1998
Group: Car Wars
Am I the only only that thinks printed rules are meant to be followed?
When you start off with an unreasonable question like that, just what kind of reaction do you expect? ;)
|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Pyramid Guru
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
Subject: Re: Tournament rule sets
From: Steven Vawter <leopard@midwinter.com>
Date: 15:39:19, Oct 19, 1998
Message-ID: 16004
Group: Car Wars
Well, you may be nuts, but this is not the reason. If so . . .
What especially gets my goat about the boards you are talking about (I've seen them roast you over the fire) is that the person asking the question did not ask "How do you play this?" Instead, they asked "What are the rules on such and such?" i.e. "Can you have 2 turrets on a van?" rather than "Should you be able to have 2 turrets on a van?"
Steve
Subject: Re: Tournament rule sets
From: Robert Deis <rdeis@io.com>
Date: 11:19:15, Oct 21, 1998
Group: Car Wars
I've seen them roast you over the fire
Yeah, no fun. Actually, I think the Board Wizard has been convinced by NOVA that I'm the Spawn of Hell, so I may just leave that place alone for a while . . .
What bothers me most is that so many people seem to think the same way they do. They seem to want more and more and more rules when they don't know or follow the ones they have! If they're not going to use SJ Games rules anyway, they should just make up their own and go with it. Besides, some of these guys are the same people that wrote "If I can help it, I'll never buy SJ Games products again if I can help it."
What especially gets my goat about the boards you are talking about . . . is that the person asking the question did not ask "How do you play this?" Instead, they asked "What are the rules on such and such?" i.e. "Can you have 2 turrets on a van?" rather than "Should you be able to have 2 turrets on a van?"
Yup. Ah, well, at least I'm not alone. Oh, BTW, Steve is doing some nice work compiling ADQ&As together. I'll be posting them to the Web Site as he finishes them, and then we'll be trying to put together a comprehensive index, if such a thing is possible . . . That'll be a good place to start cleaning up the rules.